EPISODE 27 CELEBRATING THE RETURN OF WINTER WILDFOWL

As the days shorten wintering ducks, geese and swans are making their way back to Scotland. Stephen is at RSPB Scotland's Loch Leven nature reserve to see some of the birds that make this time of year so special. He's joined by Site Manager Vicky Turnbull and Assistant Warden Darran Dixon to chat about Pintail, Smew and Wigeon.

Stephen also travels to the Slammanan Plateau in search of the UK's rarest goose. Conservation officer Scott Shanks and volunteers Angus Maciver and Billy Thomson help him to find Taiga Bean Geese in fields near Cumbernauld.

LINKS
More about our work on Corncrakes

Cattle on Lewis
https://youtu.be/87RIV7Q4qO8
RSPB Scotland Oronsay nature reserve
https://youtu.be/sMDBUpeVV6E

Let the Scottish Government know you want better legislation to protect and renew nature https://t.co/DjDHX7Zz1V

See the volunteers at Kinnordy in action
https://youtu.be/ulMPni4aiZA

Transcript

Unknown: 0:31

This is Nature News from RSPB Scotland.

Stephen Magee: 0:43

Hello and welcome to our podcast Nature News from RSPB Scotland. I'm Steven Magee. This is where we bring you stories about nature from global news to the little things we're noticing every day. This is a podcast for everyone who loves nature and wants to know what they can do to help it. We're keen to hear your nature news, whether it's the little moments you've experienced or your thoughts on the big issues affecting the planet. You can contact us on Twitter@RSPBScotland or you can email us at podcast.scotland@rspb.org.uk. Right, we're in the hide. Like the first hide. This is the - what has it got a formal name?

Vicki: 1:34

This is the Gilman Hide.

Stephen Magee: 1:35

The Gilman hide, right okay. And we are at our Loch Leven Nature Reserve. I'm joined by two of the reserve team - introduce yourselves.

Vicki: 1:45

So I am Vicki Turnbull. I'm Site Manager for Tayside Reserves.

Darran: 1:48

And I'm Darran Dixon and I'm the Tayside Reserves Assistant Warden.

Stephen Magee: 1:52

Right. And you guys are lucky enough to spend a lot of your time in this bit of the country like mostly at Leven like I know there's Kinnordy and other places too. And like the Tay, reed-beds and stuff, but is Leven like the big focus for here?

Vicki: 2:03

Yeah, most of our time is spent here.

Stephen Magee: 2:06

And the reason I'm coming here now, is this is a really good time of year. I mean, not that there are bad times of year at Loch Leven, right. But this is a really good time. Because there's just so much activity around Wildfowl and all that kind of stuff. Tell me a little bit about some of the things that are turning up kind of October/November.

Vicki: 2:27

So, at this time of year, so we've had quite a big dump of Pink-footed Geese coming in so, we get -

Stephen Magee: 2:32

Is dump like a technical term?

Vicki: 2:32

I think it is a dump of Pink-footed Geese. So yes, we have big numbers coming in and that's just that kind of a Whooper's are like, must be a brilliant thing to have here. constant inflow of geese coming down the country. And then we get the Whooper Swans as well. So that's kind of the two biggies that really draw a lot of people in.

Darran: 2:51

It's the noise they make, everyone loves the noise like you can, you know, you'll arrive at work in the morning in the carpark and and you'll hear them honking away on the wetland and think, 'Oh, the Whooper's are here' and you think yeah, it's nice, go down to see them. And they're a bit different, you know, they're a bit more wild than our Mute Swans. So I think everyone, I think everyone likes to see them. Because certainly, you know, because they're associated with like, the wild, you know, they come from from these northern countries. And, yeah, they're very nice to see.

Stephen Magee: 3:17

Yeah, that kind of like, glamour of travel with them. Right, we will talk a bit more about like Wildfoul and stuff here. But the name of the podcast is Nature News from RSPB Scotland, and as ever, we start with our own personal nature news. I'm gonna go first, I was very lucky. I had a week off last week, and I went to Rum, which is just an amazing island off the West Coast of Scotland. And one of the reasons I went there was like, it is an amazing place for wildlife. And I saw the things that you might expect to see like Otter, Wild Goat, Red Deer, White-tailed Eagle, Golden Eagle, but actually the thing I really enjoyed seeing more than anything else was there's like - Rum's famous for the Cuillin which are these really pointy hills, but it's also some flat hills, like a flat hills, what's a flat hill Stephen, ken what I mean. But you know, like a hill with flat tops on them and like, you know, little mini Cairngormy type things right. And on top of them, they've got loads of Snow Buntings, and I hadn't expected to see Snow Buntings on the trip, and I think it's one of the really nice things about nature is like sometimes even although it's maybe not as glamorous, right, obviously as Golden Eagles and stuff like that, because it was a surprise it meant a bit more and it was a really nice thing to see. What about yourself?

Vicki: 4:25

So kind of similar actually. So with all the flooding lately, there's obviously wet pools and areas where you don't normally see lots of puddles. And a couple of weeks back, I saw a Red Throated Diver just swimming on the golf course in Perth. And it was fantastic and was a bit like you know what, what is that over there? And then you get closer and then yeah, and I've just happily swimming along fishing on the golf course.

Stephen Magee: 4:46

For those people who don't know about Red Throated Diver right that is like in terms of breeding bird in in Scotland, that is a... that's an absolute, you know, these remote lochans or wherever, Assynt or whatever, and in winter it's normally a bird you'd see in the sea, probably?

Vicki: 5:02

Well, we do find them at Loch Leven every now and again. Yes. I mean, we get quite a wide range of things turn up at Loch Leven but yeah, certainly not one for the golf course normally

Stephen Magee: 5:11

No, it's not normally on the golf

Darran: 5:12

Yes, so it'll be all the arrival of Waxwings that have course...what about yourself? been happening in our local area recently. So I've been quite lucky to see them a few times. Sort of been down the local supermarket in the carpark feasting on the berries. And yesterday, we saw a few in Blairgowrie on our way back from Kinnordy. And, you know, we get really good views of them. And it's just like, they're like a harbringer of winter.

Stephen Magee: 5:32

Yeah.

Darran: 5:32

And, you know, that's when when you see them, you think, well, winter is definitely here now. And they're a treat, because you know, they don't arrive every year. So when they do turn up, it's nice to just appreciate them while they're here, because they're readily different to anything else that we've got in the country.

Stephen Magee: 5:45

And I think one of the lovely things about them is like winter can be quite a monochrome time of year, right? You know, and it gets dark, really, really feeling it like the last couple of weeks it getting dark earlier and stuff and Waxwings are just colour, colour colour, and they're just amazing, even in the winter.

Darran: 6:00

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, they've got the little punky haircuts as well. So and you know, they've got all that colour on their wings, and you know, everything is a bit grey. And, you know, there's not as much light. So you know, when you when you do get a nice sunny day in the winter, and you see the colour of a Waxwing.

Vicki: 6:15

And they're always on like red berries, or well, it was yellow berries yesterday. And it just yeah, it was fantastic. On all the leaves turning, it just is a good combination.

Stephen Magee: 6:24

I kind of think you should be able to prescribe seeing Waxwings for people are struggling with the winter.

Vicki: 6:30

Easier said than done.

Stephen Magee: 6:32

No, it's not just our nature news. It's news for wider nature as well on the podcast. And there are a couple of things I want to let you know about. The first is actually good news, which is Corncrakes. Corncrake numbers in Scotland have risen for the first time in five years, the big annual surveys revealed this year there were 870 calling meals recorded which was up from 820 in 2022. Might not sound like a lot but like for a bird that is as scarce as Corncrake. That's a really big deal. And it's down to a huge amount of work, try to do habitat work, I'll stick some videos in the shownotes about different kinds of things that are getting done on Oronsay in Islay and also up on Lewis, in trying to improve habitat for Corncrake. But there's a lot of people working hard to make that happen. And that's a massive boost for them. So that's really good news. The second bit of news is some homework for people, which is that the Scottish Government is consulting on a biodiversity strategy, that might sound a bit dry. But basically, it's about potentially the biggest set of laws addressing nature and the problems it faces in a generation. And they want to hear from the public about what's important to them and what the priorities should be. So we'd really like you to get in touch with the Scottish Government and let them know that you care about nature and you want nature front and centre for that. And I will put again, a link in the shownotes for a some advice about how you can do that. So I'm having a look out. Admittedly, I haven't brought binoculars with me because I'm an idiot, right? It - there's a lot of swans far away. Right? What kind of stuffs been about the last few days? And what is it about this habitat because we're looking out here from this hide at some of the pools here but there's pools further over, there's the open loch as well. And in between that there are little kind of gap bits that have got rushy grass are like quite close crops and stuff, what is it about this landscape that brings in these winter visitors?

Darran: 8:45

Well, I think there's a lot of different as you say, there's a lot of little different, like sort of areas on reserve for the bird to like, so you know, we've got all the pools out there, and they're a good sort of, they're not too deep. So it's good feed in for sort of dabbling ducks and swans, you know, they can't feed in a deeper area, so that I think that's one of the reasons why they like it here on reserve. It's quite sheltered as well, like, you've got the whole loch up there, which is, you know, getting attacked by wind at the moment, but there's quite a lot like sheltered little areas out there, which, you know, they can keep cover in as well. There's very little disturbance out there, obviously, you know, the members of the public can't get out there. So, maybe the birds feel a bit safer here as well. And in terms of sort of, like the open rushy areas, it's really good for the, the Pink-footed Geese to feed, you know, feed on some of the grass. And, you know, they've got a good sort of field of view, if any, if any predators that are did sort of come around. And it's also a really good area for them to roost as well because, you know, they're historically like, you know, they come back to the same areas year on year, obviously know that it's a good sort of, well, you know, an area free of disturbance.

Stephen Magee: 9:50

I always think that's one of amazing things about right, it's you've got so looking around here. You know there's - have a look in the faraway hide, like on the way over, there's Pintail, there's Wigeon, there's Teal, there's Whooper Swans, obviously - I haven't seen any yet, but there are Pink-feeted Geese around just now of all these things. And they've come from places as diverse as Iceland as Scandinavia, other bits of Northern Europe. I mean, like, like, there's probably some stuff that comes here from like Russia, you know, in that in those kinds of places as well, maybe, I mean, you know, they're like from all over the place. But year after year, they're kind of these populations of birds are faithful to this site. And I don't understand what the mechanism is for that or how that happens.

Vicki: 10:38

Well it's, I suppose it still is a little bit of a mystery, but they are - so when they're leaving, specifically the Pinkies, and the Whooper's as well, you know, they are leaving Iceland in their, you know, in their family groups. So there is some element of learned behaviour. And we know from having birds with collars on, that have turned up at Loch Leven, and here on the reserve, you know, so these birds do follow the same patterns and variably kind of down the east coast. And they do stop off at the same point. So there will be an element of learned behaviour and you know, they're relatively long lived birds for quite kind of big lumps that fly through the sky. So they will have kind of made this same journey year after year.

Stephen Magee: 11:20

So there is like, because I know with different birds, like some birds, like they're younger, that do amazing migrations, like so they even like quite common things like Willow Warblers or Chiffchaffs or whatever. Like those, their young each year, just go off and do that, right. They were like, hardwired to fly from here to Africa, and know to come back and stuff. But these guys, you think are maybe learning a bit from their parents.

Vicki: 11:52

I think there must be an element of that because the I mean, specifically with the Whooper's, you can see that they still stay in the family groups, because, you know, you can see the cygnets that are, you know, a little bit more obvious at this time of year than young pinkies. But they are kind of leaving Iceland in big groups. So there will be learned behaviour, but there I mean, there's also a trigger of the light. So, I mean, I don't have all the answers. So I don't know kind of all the different elements that make them automatically go to these - it's a bit like the Waxwings you know, we were discussing yesterday how they turn up at the same trees year after year. So and they only kind of live for a maximum of eight years. So there so how much of that is learned behaviour and instinct. Not entirely sure.

Stephen Magee: 12:29

I think it's good sometimes not to know, right? It's just like, these are good because if you knew everything, that'd be boring, right? Like these are these are really one of the nice things to -

Vicki: 12:36

I'm happy to say I don't know all the answers.

Stephen Magee: 12:39

And we were talking earlier on about this landscape and why it works for them, right? That's not entirely an accident is it and there's a lot of work we do here. What is it that we are doing this landscape and how do we have control over it to make it as good as it can be at this time of year for the birds that want to come here?

Darran: 12:56

Well, we have a lot of rain at this time of year which helps but we do we do try and hold back a lot of water at this time of year. We try to keep as much open water for the bird as possible.

Stephen Magee: 13:05

So when you say hold back, what you mean, keep water in the reserve in the pool, so we've got control over the water levels.

Darran: 13:11

Yeah, so we've got sort of you know, we've got all these little sort of linked pools of little channels and at the end of these channels in the pools we've got like pipes that we can raise and lower show when when we want to hold - keep water and we can keep the pipes up and then there will always be a bit of seepage, you know, because the water levels are sort of linked to the loch. But you know, at this time of year we can hold it back quite well and we can also save it for the spring as well when we need water to stay and you know, if we get dry springs and the water contract quickly so it's kind of works in two ways. You know, we're providing lots of open water habitat for the Wildfoul and you know, we're also you know also keeps the surrounding sort of fringes of the - like around the wet features it keeps them nice and wet and muddy and it also brings in like a lot of Curlew so we get quite a lot of Curlew in winter and occasionally we'll get other waders in.

Stephen Magee: 13:57

And I think one of the things I find really interesting you know because I've been here in the spring and the summer when the focus of the reserves shifts a lot to like breeding birds and it's a really different place to look at when you've tried to optimise it for breeding Lapwing and stuff like that. It's like is it quite - is it quite satisfying kind of like playing God like that is what I'm asking.

Vicki: 14:20

Oh I don't think we describe it in the management plans as playing God. It's more about trying to get the sward height right and the water levels right, I mean it is satisfying when it works you know because we spend nine months of the year managing the ground for three months of the year. And just trying to get it just right at the start of spring to bring in the Lapwing so we do - we try different things every year but there's certain things that we kind of know are tried and tested but but yeah, it's always nice when you get that first Lapwing nesting right on the spot. We're like, oh, we cut the grass to just be just at that right height. We just made it nice and muddy for them. So yeah, it is really satisfying. But yeah, it's kind of the suite of things. It brings it all together I think.

Stephen Magee: 15:02

Well, listen. Leven's an amazing place but Wildfoul, winter, a lot of that for me is always going to be about geese. Pink-feet Geese obviously here but I was really lucky. Couple of weeks ago, I went to the Slamannan Plateau right, which is kind of like near Cumberland basically. Right in the middle of Scotland, to meet up with some RSPB staff and volunteers and find out about what is arguably the UK's rarist Goose. You join us in - I mean it is a layby, it's quite a big luxurious layby just outside Cumbernauld of all places. And I've got Scott Shanks with me. And also two volunteers, Billy and Angus. Scott, why have we come here?

Scott: 15:56

So we've come to Fannyside Loch, in RSPB Fannyside which is a RSPB reserve and it is an amazing and very special occasion for a particular type of Goose that is only found - the only population of it in the UK at the moment I believe but definitely in Scotland.

Stephen Magee: 16:15

Yeah so we can legit say that this is the UK's rarest Goose that we are going to look for right.

Scott: 16:21

It is the UK's rarest Goose, which is wonderful.

Stephen Magee: 16:24

And so it's Taiga Bean Geese.

Scott: 16:28

It's Taiga Bean Geese, yeah, Taiga Bean Goose and -, it was fairly recently just made a full species. So previously, you'd have said a Bean Geese and you'd have looked at Tundra Bean Goose and Taiga Bean Goose as two different subspecies.

Stephen Magee: 16:45

For people who don't know like tundra's like that kind of like big flat kind of habitat that you get in like a huge chunk of like the north of Europe and Asia and Taigas the bit of that but with forest in it, is that a fair summary?

Scott: 16:59

I guess that's not bad. It's not bad. So I think a Tundra Bean Goose is the much commoner sort of Goose. So you may be looking at of 550,000 / 600,000 kind of sort of birds across Europe, Taiga Bean Geese, maybe 50 to 60,000. So it's about a 10th of the population. However, for Scotland and for the UK, the Taiga Bean Goose is the one that you're much more likely to see.

Stephen Magee: 17:24

And Angus, you spend a lot of time looking for these guys. Right? So so how many are we getting here around this site?

Angus: 17:32

We're getting over just over 200 birds now the last few years.

Stephen Magee: 17:38

And like that sounds like a lot of people hearing that might think, that's not very many birds, but in terms of like it makes this place incredibly important, right?

Angus: 17:46

Well, yes. Especially now that the flock in Norfolk has more or less disappeared and not wintering in the UK. It means that the only Taiga flock coming to the UK is coming to Slamannan and so the importance of the area, and the importance of our monitoring has become quite specific.

Billy: 18:06

For a long time no one had a real idea about where these birds went to breed. We know that they come from the taiga, the breed in the tiaga, which is a huge biome that stretches the whole width of Asia and there there's three separate breeding populations. And they all have their own wintering grounds. So the birds that come to us are essentially Swedish birds, and in particular the group that are here every winter breed in the centre of Sweden in Dalarna County.

Scott: 18:44

We've had waves of birds being captured here and fitted with collars and kind of sort of tracking so we have had data in the past, how they've moved during the Plateau has been an amazing thing. Where they've gone to in their breeding grounds when they get back to Sweden and where they land first, where they move to in various points, has been you know, it's been amazing -

Billy: 19:05

Far better idea of staging areas and breeding grounds and the breeding activity and the molting activity or lack of, but these things are all that's all new knowledge and it's all a result of the GPS tagging and it's all in the last six years.

Stephen Magee: 19:18

So I think what would be worth doing right, we know that at least one bird is kicking about you know from the from the satellite tags and also you guys have been out already, yeah, and seen some birds so that sounds good. Why don't we have a wander down the loch. Right, which is the actual reserve and maybe see a Goose or even if we don't see a Goose we can at least maybe see what attracts the Geese here?

Scott: 19:38

Yes okay, let's do that.

Stephen Magee: 19:49

So we've come down the road a wee bit and we passed you could see the loch, the Fannyside, so which loch is that we were looking at?

Scott: 19:57

Yes. So there's two lochs there. So there's the larger one which is, I guess they are both called Fannyside Lochs. There's Wester Fannyside Loch and Easter Fannyside Loch and Easter Fannyside Loch is actually within RSPB Fannyside reserve. And it's really interesting in that it's one of the first places that the Geese arrive. It's kind of a massive orientation that they do, coming back to Scotland is possibly, you know, the lochs is drawing them in, which is lovely.

Stephen Magee: 20:25

What is it about the loch that attracts the Geese? What do they get out of that in this landscape.

Scott: 20:32

Well, I mean, I guess,, back in 1989, when RSPB bought this area of land, it was just for the Geese. So it's one of those, you know, I guess there are other reserves where we've purchased them for a suite of species or because of the habitats. And here it was because of the presence of those Taiga Bean Geese and just in order to make sure that they are protected because the population was here, but actually, it's the I guess it's the roosting overnight and the kind of the safe place for them to be in this kind of landscape. It's nice and open. So I guess one of the biggest draws

Stephen Magee: 21:01

Can like sit out in the loch, and they can see - they've got a clear sight, you can see that like this, the landscape around us, just so people know, it's a jumble of like classic kind of like Scottish kind of slightly uplandy landscape. Like there's bits of like conifer plantation, there's tusiky fields, there's blanket bog that we came passed, there's cultivated fields. There's kind of a mixture of everything, but those lochs offer them this complete view around them and a safe place to be at night, right. here is going to be the farmland, so that you're right like that kind of a mosaic of farmland. The peatland, the lochs, it just works perfectly for them. So they'll be out in the day, scoffing and munching kinda like the improved grassland or semi-improved kind of grassland, farmers, silage fields. And then at night, you know, when the late nights coming in finding a place where the foxes or you know, any other predators out there aren't going to get them. You're spending all your time going round in the daytime, where will you mostly find these Geese then in the daytime?

Angus: 22:07

Well in the early days, they were seen roundabout the western part of the area. But within the last 10/15 years, the birds have moved more to the east. And we have had a heat map done recently by a forestry chap. And that shows very well what we've been recording because I've been recording the birds over 20 years, and the field distribution of the birds. And that has now tied in using satellite tracking data that shows you the move from the west to the central area north of Slamannan and the town itself. So there has been a shift in the bird feeding areas, they'd moved gradually from one place to another.

Stephen Magee: 22:53

And is that probably to do with like changes in the fields, in the field use-

Angus: 22:56

Well, exactly. The birds are their own boss, they do whatever, they go where they go. If it's greener grass over the other side of the fence, they'll go there. But you know they have, they build in a picture of all the fields that they're happy in. And these are the fields that we look for them.

Stephen Magee: 23:15

One of the things right. So these guys are pretty mobile, right? They're going to Sweden and back every year. Do you ever wonder like because you must spend a lot of time a) looking for them, right and b) when you find them just looking at them thinking like, why here? Why basically on the outskirts of Cumbernauld. I mean, like that's like, I was looking at it coming across in the blanket bog in the pools and stuff and thinking well, it's nice, but like, there's like 1000s of hectares of that habitat in the flow country that hasn't got Bean Geese in it. You know what, why Slamannan?

Angus: 23:48

Well, we don't know. We don't know why they've just come here. But they're obviously happy in this area. It may well remind them of the Taiga, where they come from in central Sweden.

Stephen Magee: 24:01

Because to be fair, standing here like behind you, right. The top of the ridge line behind us is all trees and it's conifers, right. And in front of us is a tusiky bit, and behind us is blanket bog. It is a million miles away from the Taiga.

Angus: 24:16

Absolutely. Yeah. When you look at pictures from Dalarna County, you know, go onto Google Maps and look at Dalarna County and you'll suddenly see the resemblance of where we are today in central Scotland. But there's no answer. There's no real clue as to why they pick that bit, can only presume that they feel comfortable here. Yeah, it's a quiet area. So they can get peace and quiet and this during the winter period here with us.

Stephen Magee: 24:46

Yeah, you're right. It's one of these in between places, because like you speak to most Scottish people and if you said to them if I said to a couple people I was going to like the Slamannan Plateau. And they're like 'the what?' You know what I mean? You know, it's like it's not a place that people wouldn't necessarily think of. You could drive past this just right. There's no things in it. There's no tea room. There's no toilet, no pin badges, right. But that's, that's for a reason, right? This, this reserve is one of the kinds of places that we look after that's, that's really just for the wildlife more than anything else.

Scott: 25:20

So you're totally right. We've got those two types of reserves, you've got the lovely visitor ones, pin badges and lovely scones. And here, it really is, you know, its habitat, it's the species, it's a hard to access place. And, you know, putting in infrastructure, putting in lovely kind of sort of paths and stuff, you know, it really would possibly have a negative impact on the actual wildlife. And so really, we don't advertise it. Angus and the Bean Goose group do an absolute amazing job, and they come in, and they use the wee single track roads and floating tracks over the peat bogs to get here. But yeah, you wouldn't really want a huge number of people sort of coming in.

Stephen Magee: 26:00

Somewhere for Geese, right?

Scott: 26:02

Yeah, that's right.

Stephen Magee: 26:03

What's it like? Why? Why do you want to spend your time following like, 200 odd Swedish Geese about? What is

Billy: 26:15

A simple answer would be madness. An answer would be that the attraction of that? I'm naturally interested in birds. I'm naturally interested in the countryside, in the natural world. And I think preservation of species is important. I think whatever we can do, but is not a great deal to be fair other than, you know, just straightforward data collection, monitoring.

Stephen Magee: 26:46

Don't do yourself down. Because without the data collection, we can't do anything else. Right. And it's the core of actually data has to come first. Right?

Angus: 26:54

Yeah. Because what actually happened, you know, and in the early 1990s, was that when NatureScot, or Scottish Natural Heritage as they were in these days. They wanted, they and the RSPB, then came up with the idea of putting in a special protection area in Triple SI, we as volunteers we had never asked for that. We had been looking for a management scheme for farmers to reward them for having decent grounds. But before long, we actually had a, we had this Triple SI, an SBA -

Stephen Magee: 27:32

Which is special protection area.

Angus: 27:33

Special protection area, put together and that came in the back of all the data that I had been collecting over the years that gave it they - that gave it the provenance that this was important.

Stephen Magee: 27:47

Yeah, to make that happen. And and it was only just in time, right? Because parts of this site would be gone now if it weren't for that.

Scott: 27:55

I think you're right. So round about the time that the SPA was pulled together, so Triple SI in 2006, SPA in 2008 round about that time. So the area next to us, just to the north of the reserve was a massive peat extraction, a massive area of peat extraction, nine and a half metres of peat remaining. So you can just imagine what was there before.

Stephen Magee: 28:19

Nine and a half thousand years of peat.

Scott: 28:20

Yeah, amazing. Still connected to Europe and the landbridge by then. Yeah, the Geese could have walked from Denmark in those days, lazy devils, on the back of a Reindeer. So I think just at that time there was a proposal for more peat extraction kind of in there and that entire area could have been you know, could have been lost.

Stephen Magee: 28:41

Your data matters. Okay. Very nice reserve, it's lovely to see it. Do you think there's a possibility we might be able to go and actually see some Geese?

Scott: 28:50

Course.

Stephen Magee: 28:50

Excellent. All right. Let's do that. What you got Billy?

Billy: 29:08

In the centre of the field of view, you'll see one'Gander on guard duty.

Stephen Magee: 29:12

Oh, yeah. So we are -

Billy: 29:18

Oh, about like 500 metres-

Stephen Magee: 29:20

500 metres away, something like that. And Billy has picked out literally a single Goose, which is sticking its head up to he's having a look about are there probably other birds in that long vegetation around him.

Billy: 29:31

Just over the contour there'll be a small group of birds.

Stephen Magee: 29:35

And, like so, Bean Goose it's a grey goose. Like to somebody who's not a massive goose expert like me. It looks quite a lot like a Pink-footed Goose right? Yeah, what's different about it?

Billy: 29:49

Well Pink-feet are the confusion species basically Pink Feet are far more numerous. They're a little smaller. They have pink feet. The Bean Goose is a bigger bird that's almost the size of a Greylag Goose and has orange feet. It has a longer Right. Okay, good. Good, good. Good. Angus, like how good are bill than the Pink-foot. A longer neck than the Pink-foot. Slightly darker in the back than a Pink-foot. But from this distance, it would be hard to say 100% that was a Bean Goose, but we just happen to know that it is because we saw them earlier. you at finding them now.

Angus: 30:26

Good. Everybody relies on me. Yep. Had a man one year came from, from down south in England. A place called Englandshire?

Stephen Magee: 30:38

Yeah, I've heard of it.

Angus: 30:39

And he was going around and around looking for the geese. And couldn't find them. And he happened to meet me up over Garbethill near here. And I took him into a field. And we walk very quietly. And just over the top of this contour line was geese. And he went home and he wrote me a poem about his experience coming to this ghastly place called Slamannan Plateau nearly 600 feet above sea level in central Scotland, because we're over 200 metres high here. And then they talked about 'I met this man'. So yeah, he sent it to me, I've got it framed, a poem all about meeting the Bean Goose man who showed me where the geese were. And like today, you would never have found them.

Stephen Magee: 31:38

To be clear for people listening, we are talking about a field that's like even the nearest part of the fields is 250 metres away, the furthest away part that the geese are in is 500 or so. It's heavy vegetation, like even looking through the scope now that you're on them. But it's just heads popping up here. But you know, I'm getting a little thrill out of thinking about that - that's the UK's rarest

Angus: 32:04

That's what we've been talking about all morning, and goose! there they are.

Stephen Magee: 32:09

And there's, you know, there's not a lot of these guys about so it's something special to see.

Angus: 32:13

Absolutely.

Scott: 32:15

In all the years I've worked on the Slamannan Plateau, three times I've seen geese and normally at night when I'm leaving. And you get overhead and you think oh, yep, that was Bean Geese for a second. Can I say, being out with these guys today is fab. Absolutely amazing. Really exciting for me.

Stephen Magee: 32:31

Now, let me play devil's advocate for a minute, right? Okay. These are 200 odd geese that come here. Right? They're a fraction of the European population, right of Taiga Bean Geese. Increasingly, they've some of them right, it seems, you know, some have been staying, you know, closer to where they breed. Does it really matter if they come to Scotland?

Scott: 32:58

I think that's, I think that's a really, it's, it's a tricky point, isn't it? Because as a unique bird species coming to this area, to what, to our reserves. You know, do we want to hang on to them? Yes. You love them to be here. However, you're right. If they're actually staying in Sweden, if there's an issue, you know, we're seeing the numbers going down here. And you're thinking, you know, is it habitat destruction? Is it being predation, is it shooting, all of these things, if it's just warmer, if it's climate change, they can actually - calmer conditions up in Sweden or Denmark when they come down to, and they can spend the winter there closer to the breeding grounds, less energy given out.

Billy: 33:38

It's a huge energy expenditure to cross the north sea to come here. And the real driver is that the ground in Sweden freezes for long enough to make it difficult for them to feed. However, the ground in Jutland probably isn't freezing any more than it does here. And that's a much shorter journey for them. So short stopping will probably become more common.

Stephen Magee: 34:04

But what would you do if they didn't come? Because you're the goose guy.

Angus: 34:07

Absolutely. I might retire at last. Unless I find another species of it. But no, it's been quite a journey. But it's been a lovely journey, because you know, seeing them 20 odd years ago, and then monitoring, monitoring the flock and being involved with so many different groups of people. Yeah, it's been part of an important part of my birding life. Considering I've been a birder since I was knee-high to a grasshopper so yeah, I never would comes, you know, comes today to see them so it's nice to be able to do that, but I'm prepared for them drifting. As we know, the climate change may well stop that and coming here. And it'll be a sad day to see them, to see the numbers drop.

Stephen Magee: 35:03

I don't think they'll go while you're still here. They wouldn't have the temerity.

Angus: 35:07

Well, perhaps not.

Stephen Magee: 35:24

I was quite pleased, I've just seen like a couple of geese up the top field. And then suddenly there was a noise. And we all had to turn around. And it was how many did you count? 86! And they make quite a noise when they're

Angus: 35:34

Well we counter, originally we had 78. But that's flying about and that's one of the things that's going to help been added to now got a total of 86. you right. It's like that noise is different to a Pinky. Absolutely. Very different.

Stephen Magee: 35:52

I do feel quite lucky to have seen probably almost half of that very rare population of like Bean Geese, yeah!

Billy: 36:03

You're probably looking at all the geese that are here at present. The flock will build through the rest of November, but potentially maybe not.

Angus: 36:12

Just over 100 here just now. So you've seen the bulk of them.

Stephen Magee: 36:16

Not bad for a Thursday morning.

Angus: 36:17

Not bad for a - it's Thursday is it?

Stephen Magee: 36:20

Thursday all day. Yeah.

Angus: 36:23

And the sun's out, what more could you want, sun on your back looking at the birds.

Stephen Magee: 36:52

Yeah, so I felt pretty lucky, right, having seen 170 odd of like, like I say arguably the UK's rarest goose. But the thing I really came away with is a lot of our understanding of what's happening with those birds is down to hard work of volunteers in particular, there's a team of people there who have been working for like, you know, yonks, going out in all weathers. Looking for those birds, understanding their behaviour, helping out with the tagging and the ringing and all that kind of stuff and feeding back the data that at the end of the day, you can't do anything without right the data is fundamental to if you want to try and like do things to optimise the situation for those birds, you need to know where they are, what they use and what the preferences are. And that all speaks to that. And it's amazing. But that volunteer effort isn't I mean, like, here, I mean, I've been here a few times and like you go like volunteer to spend the entire breeding season with the Plovers and people who do stuff all year. I mean, volunteers are really core right to the success of what we do.

Vicki: 37:53

I think we must have about 40 volunteers at Loch Leven. And it's everything from you know, helping out in the office to chasing down Lapwing and finding out how they're doing over the breeding season. And they just give a huge amount of their time. And they just do it willingly and always with a smile on their face. And we'd be absolutely stuck without them. So but yeah, they help in every aspect to make the reserve flow as it does.

Stephen Magee: 38:20

We had a day at Kinnordy recently, right, I'll put the film from it and the video in the in the shownotes, like folk in drysuits chopping up like trees that were getting in the way, blocking up drainage and stuff, but it was actually it was quite dynamic.

Darran: 38:36

Yeah, there's a whole range of tasks, especially at remote reserves like Kinnordy as well, we go out once a week. And you know, if it's just the two of us going up, we can't do much when there's two of us. So having that team, that core team of volunteers that there have been some of them have been there for nearly 10 years. It's just we just managed to achieve a lot more. And we wouldn't be able to keep the reserve sort of ticking over the way we do without them.

Stephen Magee: 38:59

And of course, if you're listening and you're interested in the idea of volunteering, I'll put some stuff in the shownotes again about how you can find out about that but you know, folk all over the country are always looking for more volunteers to help out on reserves and doing other stuff as well. There's actually loads of different kinds of opportunities. Right, finishing up here, right. If there's one thing about this time of year thinking about the birds that come here, particularly the kind of Wildfoul side of it, is there one thing you most look forward to that's most satisfying to see, is there a favourite out there on the pools for you.

Vicki: 39:31

Do I have a favourite?

Stephen Magee: 39:33

They can't hear us because the windows of the hide are shut.

Vicki: 39:36

Well, I can say whatever I what. I think for me, it's the Wigeon I think because they have like this, they kind of move around and hustle altogether in this big flock and quite often they kind of move from the pool and just move up and feed on the grass right on the edge and they kind of got this, this little whistle that comes along with them. And it just feels like there's just like a big gang of them and they just all move around together. And yeah, it is just quite nice especially, you know, as the light starts fading, you just kind of hear their little call in the night.

Stephen Magee: 40:09

It's that little whistley, kind of constant, it's kind of like, I know you shouldn't anthropomorphize. But it feels to me a ot like, like just being in a big group of people going - you alright? Yeah, I'm alright. You alright? Yeah I'm alright. You alright? Yeah I'm alright. You know, it's just like super reassuring. What about you?

Darran: 40:27

I just like it when one day it goes from you know, you know, that autumn suddenly arrived when you go down to the hides and there's just loads of birds down there because there

Stephen Magee: 40:36

There was one of those like when I went down this was a bit of a lull you know, after the breeding season. And just to see all the ducks come back, but I quite like the the Pintail. The male Pintail like with its wee chocolatey brown head. morning, like the Wigeon are beautiful little delicate things right, but Pintails are like quite a chunky duck.

Darran: 40:56

Oh, yeah. And they've got...yeah, they're just very pretty.

Stephen Magee: 41:00

I think as well the nice thing about that is like you come here and you expect like big flocks of like Wigeon and Teal and stuff like that, but the Pintail like, they just stand out don't they, they really kind of, you know, because of their extra size and stuff. And it's a wee treat in amongst all this other stuff.

Darran: 41:13

Yeah definitely, because they don't turn up in big numbers like the Teal and the Wigeon and the Mallard and the Gadwall. And whatever else turns up, you know, so it's just nice, nice, something different, you know, and it's always nice when something a bit different does turn up, you know, sometimes maybe a Smew might turn up and if we had a male Smew turn up -

Stephen Magee: 41:28

To be fair, if people haven't seen a male Smew, I mean, it's mostly white, right with these, like these beautiful kind of eyeliner pencil kind of bits of black on it.

Darran: 41:36

Very elegant.

Stephen Magee: 41:37

It's an absolute stunner, it really is a Smew, like -

Vicki: 41:41

And you can pick them out a mile away, because it's just like a little white beacon in the distance.

Darran: 41:47

Do you know what else I quite enjoy though. The Goldeneye. You know, like, out on the loch, you'll get a lot of Goldeneye. And you know, later on in the winter, all the males will do their very weird looking neck flick when they flip their head back because like they are displaying to the females. And it's all like they're all trying to get the attention. And it looks like they're breaking their neck when they do it. But that's always fun to watch.

Stephen Magee: 42:07

Yeah, no, it's nice to see a wee drama. And I think the other thing about the Goldeneye is that I know this is really obvious. But like their eye does look amazing. And you know, you can see it's one of those ones where it's like sometimes the name of a bird, like Smew for example, that's no help. No giveaways at all it's like what's a Smew, right? Because a Smew might be like, an Icelandic furniture brand. Or it might be a duck. Right? But like Goldeneye really helps. Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, their eyes are like, little gold coins. And they're amazing. Yeah, otherwise monochromatic birds you know, you know. Oh yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. Right. Well, I suppose. Like, the thing to say about that is if you get the chance, this autumn into winter, to go somewhere where you've got a decent chance of seeing ducks, geese, all kinds of Wildfoul, these seasonal visitors, take the opportunity if you can get it because it's, it's a fantastic opportunity. And we're very lucky to live here on part of a flyway that has all these amazing things that come here and spend a bit of time and let us see them before they have to go off other places to do the important business of breeding. And that is it for this edition of the podcast the next time, I think we'll be talking about something a bit more depressing in some ways, but also, you know, hopefully, there'd be some good news to share with you about it, which is some stuff about raptor persecution, because there's a lot coming up in the Scottish Parliament before the end of the year with people talking about the wildlife management bill, and trying to tackle raptor persecution and improve our uplands for nature as well. So that's what we'll be talking about next time. In the meantime, thank you both very much for making the time to sit in the hide and chat to me. It's been lovely. And until next time, do please like, subscribe, or leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Get in touch @RSPBScotland on Twitter or podcast.scotland@rspb.org.uk and until next time, thanks for listening and goodbye.