EPISODE 18 - A look back at 2022

Stephen and Kate are joined for a snowy wander by Scotland Director Anne McCall and Head of Species and Habitats Paul Walton. They pick out their highlights of the past year and look ahead to 2023. There's also an unexpected link between long tailed tits and the Waltons.

LINKS

Report on the state of Scotland's protected areas

https://www.scotlink.org/two-thirds-of-scots-support-ambitious-30-by-30-target-to-protect-nature/

 A chance to see our new Glencripesdale nature reserve for yourself

https://youtu.be/w3T8QUwAziw

 Advice on feeding birds

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/how-you-can-help-birds/feeding-birds/

How to clean feeders

https://youtu.be/qA8Kj0zu2YQ

Transcript

Intro  0:22 
This is Nature News from RSPB Scotland

Stephen Magee  0:34 
Hello and welcome to our podcast Nature News from RSPB Scotland. I'm Steven Magee. This is where we bring you stories about nature, from global news to the little things that we're noticing every day.

Kate Kirkwood  0:45 
And I'm Kate Kirkwood. There's never been a time when staying in touch with nature and acting to protect it has been more important.

Stephen Magee  0:51 
We are keen to hear your nature news, whether it's the little moments you've experienced, or your thoughts on the big issues affecting the planet. You can contact us on Twitter @RSPB Scotland or you can email us at podcast.Scotland@rspb.org.uk

Kate Kirkwood  1:06 
And please subscribe and leave us a review because it helps other folk find us in the podcast jungle.

Stephen Magee  1:29 
Hello, is definitively winter.

Kate Kirkwood  1:33 
Yeah, usually we started commenting on how close and warm it is.

Stephen Magee  1:39 
It's the very opposite. We are, just to let you know where we are, we are up in the foothills of the Pentlands today. And it is a winter wonderland.

Kate Kirkwood  1:49 
It's proper Christmas card level of wintery.

Stephen Magee  1:51 
It's so Christmas card-y! It's like there's snow. The snow is glittering in the sunshine. There's a hard layer of hoarfrost on top of the snow, the Pentlands are all magnificent and white and lumpy.

Kate Kirkwood  2:02 
Sun is shining. Bright blue sky. And the pine trees are doing a very good job of holding a wee bit of snow and looking very wintry.

Stephen Magee  2:12 
It is. And we're not here alone. We have Anne McCall, Director of Scotland with us. Hello Anne.

Anne McCall  2:17  
Hello. Hello.

Stephen Magee  2:18 
And we also have Paul Walton, Head of Species and Habitats.

Paul Walton  2:22 
Hello there boys and girls.

Stephen Magee  2:25 
We we thought we'd do it here because, you know, it's a lovely outdoor space. I didn't quite realise I was going to require everybody to have to wear their thermals. But it is absolutely gorgeous out here.

Paul Walton  2:38 
I cannot wipe the smile off my face. Days like this. They're few and far between. But I just get this feeling in my tummy. It's so exciting is just absolutely beautiful.

Stephen Magee  2:50 
I think excitable just about covers it. But it's lovely.

Anne McCall  2:53 
It's totally perfect. I mean, this is perfect, isn't it? I mean, yeah, if you were to draw a picture of what Christmas should look like in Scotland, this is it.

Stephen Magee  3:03 
Absolutely. Now as ever, we start with our own nature news. And I'm going to start. I was at Loch Leven a couple of weeks ago, somebody loaned me their fancy telescope. And I spent a quarter of an hour just pure staring at a Teal. It was like the scales had fallen from my eyes that you could see all the detail like all the scalloping on its breast, all these different incredibly strong, just really really strong colours that was the thing that came across. The chestnutty brown, the green, the blue. All that stuff was just lovely. And just really nice to focus on, like, one bird and take it all in.

Kate Kirkwood  3:49 
Yeah. So it's a treat to get that isn't it? Because usually, with most wild birds, you're seeing them from a distance, but to get that level of detail sounds, och, that sounds braw.

Stephen Magee  3:58 
It was lovely. How about you.

Kate Kirkwood  4:00 
So I've actually been enjoying the snow for my own ID purposes. So obviously I take the dog out for her walk every day. And avid listeners will know about the dog. But she, ww were out in this countryside. So we've got about three or four inches of snow at the moment. And I've been loving it for tracking, tracking animals and things. So I'm used to the dog kind of bimbling around following her nose. And I've no idea what she's following because I mean I can't see the smells that she's avidly sniffing. But the other day I went around the field with her and I could see the pheasant footprints, I could see that there'd been Roe Deer coming through, and she's very good at finding where the Roe Deer have been sleeping as well.

Stephen Magee  4:40 
Oh do they leave like a little hollow bit where they've been sleeping?

Kate Kirkwood  4:42 
Yeah. And so just like watching for all the footprints and looking for- we've got hares as well. We're really lucky where we are. We've got loads of beautiful hares. And so just watching where she goes and following the footprints and going, right, that's her footprint. But what's that in relation to? And it's been really good fun just kind of following around the fields and seeing this normally hidden world that she gets to experience is lovely.

Stephen Magee  5:07 
Right? And how about you, Anne? What's your nature news?

Anne McCall  5:07 
Has to be Tree Sparrows in the garden. We've never had Tree Sparrows before, obviously have a lot of House Sparrows. Suddenly a couple of Tree Sparrows turned up. Then four Tree Sparrows, than six Tree Sparrows, highest count seven Tree Sparrows and my other half got a little overexcited, desperate for them not to leave now. So where we had two bird feeders before, he's now been raking out all the old bird feeders that we've got in the shed. And I think we've got about seven bird feeders up at the moment. They get filled up every morning, and I have to tell him, you know how many have been there during the day. But it's great, a bit like you, really getting to watch them closely. You know, I must admit from the comfort of my own home in this weather -

Stephen Magee  5:50 
Well that's a wee bonus, isn't it.

Anne McCall  5:50 
 Well yeah, but yeah, it's been properly exciting. I've loved it.

Stephen Magee  5:50 
Paul?

Paul Walton  5:56 
Fieldfares. It's gotta be Fieldfares. So in my allotment, which I love, right in the middle of Glasgow, really, really urban, like this incredible little oasis. And just as a hard frost came, the fieldfares came right into the allotment and, you know, breeding in Scandinavia, come over here for the winter. I think these ones must be breeding somewhere that's really remote, because these birds had absolutely no fear of people whatsoever. There was one bird that was just on our apple tree, eating the old apples that were still left on it. And the sun came out and just caught it. And what a bird! I mean really incredible. And it was so close, it was just like, a total thrill.

Stephen Magee  6:46 
And is there like discarded fruit and stuff in the allotment? Are they after stuff like that?

Paul Walton  6:50 
There's some apples still on the trees that they're getting. And there's some apples on the ground. And of course, I'm spending a significant proportion of my income on bird food as well. A bit like your other half, Anne.

Stephen Magee  7:04 
You know, this is absolutely, categorically the time to do it. Right. So it's not just about our nature news. It's also about what's happening more widely as well, there's a couple of things we want to let you know about. One is an analysis that was published recently, put together by Scottish Environment LINK, which brings together all the kind of conservation organisations in Scotland, looking at the state of our protected areas. Currently, about 18% of Scotland's land is is protected for nature. But protection isn't just about that designation. It's also about the quality of it. And that's really what the report was looking at. And kind of wondering, well, really asking the question, are these protected areas protected to the extent that we want, and also looking at, with the Scottish Government's, very welcome, commitment to protecting thirty percent of Scotland's land and sea, how we make sure that that's done the way that really helps nature. But there's a lot to do, right?

Paul Walton  7:05 
Absolutely. I mean, it is great about that 30%. But, you know, our job is to make sure, let's not forget about the other 70% as well, let's make our very best areas as good as they can be. And we still have a way to go on that. But, you know, I think there are some positive signs about this. I think the government is is looking quite carefully at protected areas at the moment. And of course, we managed quite a few of them ourselves on our nature reserves.

Stephen Magee  8:08 
Absolutely.

Kate Kirkwood  8:09 
And we've had lots of reasons for celebrations recently, we've had lots of awards being handed out for long term volunteering, but in particular, we wanted to pass on our congratulations to the Glasgow Local Group who have been celebrating 50 years of being together through birding and shared interest in the work of the RSPB, and Anne, you were along to their their celebration?

Anne McCall  9:01 
I was indeed, we both were actually, Paul and I both spoke at it and, you know, it's just lovely. I mean, one of the great things about RSPB is that people you know, really, they commit to it, they stick with the cause, our supporters stay with us, our members stay with us. And the Local Group, there were, I think four members there that night had been at the first meeting, 50 years ago, which is you know, that is commitment. And they were, I mean, they're just lovely people who are passionate about nature, who want to protect it and restore it and God, what a nice way to spend an evening with a bunch of enthusiastic folk who want to do the right thing.

Paul Walton  9:39 
You should have seen the cake.

Anne McCall  9:41 
Oh, the cake was amazing.

Paul Walton  9:43 
They had a birthday cake that had been decorated, I think by the club secretary's daughter in law. It was unbelievable. It had all the old RSPB logos on, right up to the new one, the new brand one and this incredible Crested Tit made out of icing. It was spectacular.

Kate Kirkwood  10:04 
Oh fantastic we'll have to get some photos.

Anne McCall  10:05 
I've got one!

Stephen Magee  10:06 
We'll stick in the show notes! Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, cake notes. And listen, one last bit of a news, hot off the press, at this point, dear listener, not even public knowledge. So you're kind of like, it will hopefully be public knowledge by the time you listen to this! But here's a sneaky peek right? RSPB Scotland has received a licence from NatureScot, the organisation that is responsible for all kinds of stuff to do with the nature and the environment in Scotland, to have beavers released at our Loch Lomond nature reserve. There are beavers that we translocated from Tayside, there's been a huge amount of work gone into doing this and into making the case for doing it, making sure it's the right kind of habitat.

Paul Walton  10:56 
The thing that I just want to come back to is, I'm an ecologist right, scientist, and the body of scientific literature about the impacts of positive impacts that beavers can have is one of the most incredible bits of science, bodies of evidence, I have ever looked at. That species- people say, "Oh, yeah, it's an ecosystem engineer", but they really, really are. and they will benefit insects and fish and you know, plants along the river side and the structure of woodlands in a really positive way. And there'll be, sort of, these cascades of biodiversity that follow on. So honestly, we are so, so delighted that it looks like we're going to be getting this permission to do this on one of our, you know, most significant nature reserves. And just to have beavers in the Loch Lomond catchment, it's just right. It's just right.

Anne McCall  11:51  
It's also one of our most accessible nature reserves now we've put a big new path in, which has got sort of all user access. And yeah, my hope is that it will bring a smile to the face of a lot of people who are excited about nature, and even if they don't actually physically get to see a beaver. I mean, certainly myself, going up to Knapdale to see where the beaver trial was, just got incredibly excited seeing all the evidence of beavers around, and as Paul was saying, the amazing impact they have in the habitat where they are It's extraordinary.

Stephen Magee  12:36 
So we have moved a little bit, in part because it was absolutely Baltic and we needed to move, but also come out to the reservoirs here which, today the reservoirs are frozen you can see right over to East Cairn Hill in the distance which is completely snow-covered, it is absolutely lovely. And what we are going to do for the rest of the podcast is take the opportunity, it is December, it's winter, it's Christmassy feeling. We're going to have a look back at the year and pick out some of the big stuff that happened and chew it over. But before we do that, Paul, what does weather like this do to wildlife?

Paul Walton  13:13 
Well. Wildlife has to adapt, and adapt it does. I mean look behind us. We've got hawthorns, we've got Birches, we've got Ashes here. These plants are have gone quiescent, they've lost their leaves. They've slowed down their metabolic rate, the rate at which their life functions, kind of, keep them going right down to a minimum. Some animals of course, will hibernate, slow their metabolic rate, right down.

Stephen Magee  13:42 
I have to say I have had that impulse.

Paul Walton  13:45 
Well, of course for birds, and birds can fly. And flying is really difficult. It's really unusual. But it's incredibly useful. And of course, many of our birds migrate. The other incredible thing about birds is, feathers are the best insulators in the animal kingdom. They're better than anything else. So birds can really keep themselves warm when they need to. The reason for migration, usually on the whole, is about food. Yeah, so food supply is a problem for birds in winter, finding food but like that Robin that we just saw in the car park-

Stephen Magee  14:20 
I was gonna say there was a wee Robin right in the carpark when we first arrived. And immediately as we turned up it was seeking crumbs or something from us. But the amazing thing, looking at that Robin was like, it looked twice the size of a robin normally would right, just because it's just fluffed up those feathers?

Paul Walton  14:38 
Puffed it's feathers up, and that's trapping air. The feathers are really effective. Of course, you know, for flight they're used for basically moving against the air, feathers trap air and that air is a great insulator, if you can hold it in there just like a woollen jumper. And that bird was warm, but boy, he or she was very hungry.

Stephen Magee  14:57 
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely well, and we've already been talking about feeding birds. We'll put the advise for feeding birds in the shownotes. There's some videos as well, about making sure you keep your feeders clean because of all the bird diseases that are going about. And we will be doing Big Garden Birdwatch, I think in the next one, we'll talk a bit more probably about feeding birds and stuff then, but it is something that you can do, and also providing water and making sure that water is not frozen. Anyway, the year that we have just had, I would like to start, right, with something really good that happened, which was RSPB Scotland acquiring its newest reserve, Glencripesdale. Tell people about Glencripesdale.

Anne McCall  15:38 
Oh, it's beautiful. And you've done a fantastic film about it. So probably the easiest way to visit it, at the moment is via your film. It's a bit of western Atlantic woodland, part of Scotland's rainforest. It's on the West Coast, on Morven. It used to be a national nature reserve. And it's just teeming with lichens and bryophytes and woodland and all sorts of, I mean, it's a real festival of wildlife all over it, but it is not  wildly accessible at the moment. And so we are spending a bit of time getting to know it. There's some big challenges on the site. So as with lots of bits of Scotland, there's too many deer, eating too much stuff. There's way too much Rhododendron, that is smothering the sort of understory underneath the trees. So two of the biggest things for us to do with this new reserve will be getting a handle on the dear and sorting out the Rhododendron. But both of those take a bit of time and a bit of money. So we will do as much as we can, as quickly as we can, and then hopefully be in a position to know how to do even more of that even more quickly across the rest of the rainforest area.

Stephen Magee  16:53 
Super exciting. Another positive, right for this year. Nature of Scotland Awards were back.

Kate Kirkwood  16:59 
Yeah, that was so exciting to see everyone getting all glitzed and glammed up, and actually be able to celebrate in person. Lots of really fantastic messages from everyone after, that attended, just saying how nice it was to see everyone, that there were so many people that actually didn't manage to get to speak to everyone that they'd planned on speaking to. But really, really great just to be able to celebrate and acknowledge all the nominees, but also really celebrate with all the winners on the night.

Stephen Magee  17:27 
It was amazing. And it does I mean, without straying into gushing cliché, right, you can't do anything without people, right? You know what I mean? We're a nature organisation, a lot of the other people there are nature organisations, our organisations that are allied, right. But ultimately, it's people that do stuff.

Paul Walton  17:46 
Yeah, of course it is. And I am lucky enough to sit on one of the shortlisting panels, and they just kind of advise the judges on the applicants. And so every year I get to go through the applications and it is just brilliant. It honestly, genuinely is one of my favourite activities of the year. Because there is a huge amount of stuff going on in Scotland that you just don't really get to hear about otherwise. I think one of the most valuable things about the Nature of Scotland Awards is that it does kind of give a bit of prominence to projects and community action and individual dedication. It just gives a bit of a platform for one evening of the year when everyone can really celebrate it and I love it. I really enjoy it.

Stephen Magee  18:41 
But- is that Long-tailed Tits, by the way? That's another great winter thing is it, just like like big groups of flying teaspoons going through? Yeah, and you can see them because there's no leaves on the trees.

Paul Walton  18:53 
It will be a family.

Stephen Magee  18:55  
Family?

Paul Walton  18:56 
Absolutely. Yeah, so Long-tailed Tits are what's called cooperative breeders. So what happens is, parent birds have a brood, then those birds fledge and then they all stick together. And then the next breeding season, last year's young will help the parents to rear the next generation rather than breeding themselves. And they kind of learn how to breed and build nests from doing that. So they hang around in winter as a family group, so it will be a mother and a father and brothers and sisters.

Stephen Magee  19:25 
So you're telling me Long-tailed Tits is basically 'The Waltons'?

Everyone  19:32 
Laughing and making 'The Waltons' references. 

Stephen Magee  19:33 
Right anyway back to the year right. One of the things that was a big deal for RSPB this year was the campaigning work we ended up doing, which we didn't want to do, but we had to, on Attack on Nature, right? Which was when there were a variety of things proposed by the UK government that had the potential to significantly undermine the protections for nature that we currently have. Both in terms of going through the EU legislation that was in the statute book and getting rid of it without adequate replacement, and also looking at dismantling a lot of the positive progress that had been made around farming for nature, right. People will have seen that stuff earlier in the year. Who won?

Anne McCall  20:27 
Well, you did a great podcast earlier explaining all about it. And I think it feels like things have moved on. And obviously, the sort of changing governments of Westminster have given us different people to talk to. But I think the response of the public has been absolutely instrumental in helping some of our decision makers take a different perspective. So we had over 100,000 people sign a petition in about a week, which is extraordinary. So it's still there. It's still growing. So we've, you know, we've seen them- at the minute we're having, I would say, more hopeful conversations around, and we've seen some shift in the investment zones stuff. We've seen some shift and some of the discussions around the agriculture stuff. I think the thing to watch, to keep an eye on, is the retained EU law bill, because that is still sitting, going through its legislative process. Again, I'm pretty hopeful that we're making some- we're hearing good noises, is the best way I can put it at the moment. But yeah, we're not taking our eye off the ball. But we are, I think, importantly, changing the conversation from what felt like, and was, a really comprehensive attack on nature. What we want to do is change that conversation into what we can do to save nature, because if all we do is managed to keep what we've already got, then we're all going to lose, because that's not enough. And it's declining. So simply fighting to stay as we are isn't enough. So I think the really important thing now is that we shift gear, and change this into "what can we do better?".

Stephen Magee  22:07 
What it did do was show, like, if you mess with nature, folk are gonna coe for you, right?

Kate Kirkwood  22:14 
Absolutely. I think the last couple of years, I think maybe since 2019. With the youth strikes and the school strikes, there has just been a much more mainstream conversation about how important nature is in our daily lives.

Anne McCall  22:28 
People care.

Kate Kirkwood  22:29 
Yeah, people really do care. And I think there's maybe, historically been a bit of a kind of attitude of kind of, it's maybe not very cool to care about nature, it's not very cool to care about the environment. But people have demonstrated about the fact that, how important just being able to get outside, when we were in sort of periods of enforced lockdown, how important it is for people's mental health. I mean, today, I'm just, I'm standing with the sun on my chest, and the sort of, the hoarfrost kind of glittering like crystals on the ground in front of me. And genuinely, this is going to do wonders for my wellbeing for next week. Because I can think back to how it feels, how it feels to be warm when it's been really, really cold. But those types of experiences for people who are maybe struggling, or, we're all struggling at the moment with a lot of different things. Actually, people want to show that they care and they want that solidarity, and when they recognise solidarity in other people that gives them more, more impetus to want to do things. Yeah,

Anne McCall  23:37 
Very powerful.

Stephen Magee  23:38 
It is, and like, I'm sure that the people who were behind some of these proposed legislative changes never imagined that what they were going to do was like kick this particular wasps nest, but they have, and now we're all here and that's good. Right. Um, the last thing I want to talk about from an RSPB perspective, right. Looking back at the year, is I'm very lucky with my job, right, I get to go places and see people doing all kinds of work on reserves and mostly film it. The sheer scale of stuff, like, post-COVID, right. Well, I know we're still living with COVID, but after the COVID restrictions lifted and people are able to get out and work again. The amount going on on our reserves is incredible.

Paul Walton  24:22 
Oh, it's absolutely unbelievable. I mean, operational teams. I mean, they are kind of the delivery wing of the organisation, you know, through COVID with, you know, it was, "oh, we can open our reserves. Oh, no, we have to kind of close them again.". And you know, and it was this kind of kind of stop start and the amount of work that's involved in actually getting sites ready to take visitors, to accept visitors, to welcome them and to give them the kind of experience with wildlife that they're looking for. It is a huge effort, but then on top of that, they've got all the monitoring to do, they support scientific research. They've got actual habitat management, massive extensive programmes and habitat management. So it is an enormous operation. And I'm so glad you mentioned it because I do think sometimes we sort of, go to this policy, that policy, this big issue facing us nationally, that big issue. Behind it all, it's so important that we can demonstrate what we're talking about. I think it really makes a huge difference and is real strength for the organisation.

Stephen Magee  25:22 
 And one of the big things that has been happening I mean, I've been to see the scrapes at Lochwinnoch, and the transformation there. I was at Skin Flats this week, looking at what they're doing, you know, shingle topping islands so they'd be better for breeding waders, maybe even hopefully attracting in breeding terns and stuff. A lot of this is Nature Restoration Fund money, which has given us a kickstart coming out of that difficult period?

Anne McCall  25:45 
No, it's fantastic. It couldn't have come at a better time. And originally, I think the commitment was for 10 million pounds for the Nature Restoration Fund. And then that has shifted to be 65 million pounds.

Stephen Magee  25:56 
We should say this is Scottish Government money administered by NatureScot.

Anne McCall  25:59 
Scottish Government money, and it's been- we need more than that to save nature. But oh my goodness, what a difference it's made. So ourselves and loads of other organisations and community groups and local authorities all across Scotland, many of which have, you know, we see in the Nature of Scotland Awards, are now taking on really important projects to deliver for nature. And, you know, the honest truth is without that Nature Restoration Fund, most of that work wouldn't happen. So it is, it's been absolutely pivotal in making this work happen.

Stephen Magee  26:36 
Right, that was some of the kind of highlights of the year from an RSPB point of view. But I wanted to also talk about like nature more widely. And, Paul, I mean, the dominant story for me this year, has been bird flu. What kind of a year has it been?

Paul Walton  26:51 
Completely unprecedented. I mean, really, this has taken us by surprise. And Avian Influenza is quite normal in birds, they usually don't show symptoms, the highly pathogenic form, which originated in poultry in eastern Asia, and then kind of spread across, and now found its way into wild birds, has had impacts at the kind of population level. I.e. you know, the country, or a whole global population sometimes. We're really worried about the scale of the impacts. We saw a third of the Svalbard-breeding barnacle geese that winter on the Solway, last winter a third of them died.

Stephen Magee  27:35 
You know, it's amazing to think it really is less than a year since we were first really seriously seeing those effects. And how much has happened. The impact on seabirds, it turning up in more than 60 species.

Paul Walton  27:49 
The impact on seabirds was totally, totally unexpected. We have no idea how it actually got into the seabirds, but it has, it's gone through colonies really, really quickly. And so we've had some really bad news, the Great Skua, the bonxie, you know, just on the Island of Foula alone, at least 4% of the world's population has been lost on Foula alone. Okay. So we've had these big impacts, but it's not killing everything. And for some species, we're seeing, you know, breeding failures, but it looks like the adults have managed to survive. So different impacts for different species, different impacts in different places, it seems. We're still learning a lot about this, there's a huge amount to be learned about it. But, you know, on the positive side, I do think in Scotland, we've moved relatively quickly and relatively effectively, to try and do what we can. But the big message of avian influenza is, you know, our wildlife is facing massive pressures from climate change, from habitat degradation, from invasive species. And now we have a novel threat that's coming and hitting our wild birds in completely unprecedented ways. It's a wake up call, because what we can do, is we can do more and stronger conservation work, and take conservation measures to build the resilience in our wildlife populations, to these new threats, which keep coming down the line.

Stephen Magee  29:19 
Because one of the things that really stuck with me, was when I was in Shetland in the summer, and talking to Helen up there who kind of runs our Shetland operation, and the way she put it, she said that the birds are trying to tell us something. Yeah. And that made me think about that a lot.

Kate Kirkwood  29:38 
Yeah, it's really... We talk about these sort of canaries in the coal mine. And I hate that kind of particular phrase, just because it feels very, very cruel. But you have, you learned very early on in, sort of, any sort of biology and ecological studies about indicator species, and our indicator species have been telling us for a long time that something's not quite right. But our indicator species tend to be quite small and quite kind of, they're not very immediately obvious to a layperson or to people in the general public. And so it's when you start to see visible changes in quite large birds and species, that actually people begin to sit up and take notice. The response from our supporters and our members around the avian flu, sort of, outbreaks across the UK has been phenomenal. People want us to be able to do something about it. And in a lot of situations, unfortunately, we can't. But what we can do is learn about what it's doing to these populations, why this is happening more and more often. And, Paul, you've already mentioned, kind of, the potential, kind of, pressures on thesesort of populations. And why this is happening. And we need to better understand that, really about the impact that that's having, and change the human behaviour, because we can't necessarily make the changes to the bird behaviour.

Paul Walton  31:01  
I mean, all that understanding, the RSPB is conservation science department has drawn up this incredible, I mean, at very, very short notice an incredible programme of seabird monitoring, that we're hoping to do next year, with the support that has been given by our members and supporters, they'll help to pay for it. But this is a huge programme of monitoring that will really improve our understanding of the impact of this disease on our populations. And when we have that understanding, then we will be better placed to take the right action that's needed, and do everything that we possibly can for these birds.

Anne McCall  31:41 
The danger of these sort of things is helplessness. And I mean, there are some- where do birds breed, where do they feed, what else is making their life miserable, and we just look at those things. And if we were to close the sandeel fisheries in the UK, that would make a massive difference. The island restoration work, that would be great. And other things like remote electronic monitoring, which is a way of trying to monitor what fishing boats are doing, because bycatch is a big issue, which is when birds get caught when fishermen are trying to get fish.

Stephen Magee  32:11 
Which does happen here. But a lot of people don't realise it happens in UK waters, right? We think about it as a problem with albatross, if we know about it at all, in the South Atlantic, but it is a thing, Fulmers here.

Anne McCall  32:20 
It's a huge issue, and a much bigger issue, I think, than we had originally thought it might be. So there are immediate actions that we could take just now, that would just make it easier for birds to survive. And we should do that almost regardless of the impacts of avian influenza, because seabirds have been one of the fastest declining suite of species we've got in the UK. So we need to do that now.

Stephen Magee  32:47 
I think my fear about it when it first started happening was. this feels overwhelming, right? But what does happen is like good, well motivated people in all kinds of places come out the woodwork and work out what you need to do at each moment in time and try and deal with a problem that seems, initially so massive that it will overwhelm our capacity to deal with it. But actually, people's resilience can hopefully support nature's resilience, right? One of the things we talked about in the last year's review of the previous year. Right was obviously COP, right. COP and Glasgow big moment. Super exciting. Where do think we are now, right, with those kind of those big international moves. Obviously we've got COP15 going on in Montreal just now, which is like we just kind of like COP but for nature, right rather than the climate. Did Glasgow really deliver the things we hoped it would?

Anne McCall  33:45 
Well, that's quite a difficult question, I'll be honest with you.

Stephen Magee  33:48 
That's what you get paid the big bucks for!

Anne McCall  33:50 
Yeah. Yeah, so I think what COP did, did it make a difference globally? I think it shifted things. It's like crawling slowly in the right direction, but not running, is the best description I can give of it. It took us further in the right direction. But I'd have to say the UK Government just granting a licence for a coal mine has certainly not made me feel like some of our political leaders are embracing the spirit of COP but yeah, get with the programme. That's not really ideal. We do not need fossil fuels, they should stay in the ground. And I think that the- what has been really interesting in Scotland post COP has been the the level of interest in doing what we call nature-based solutions. So things that are restoring nature, but are also good for the climate. And that feels like it's shifted hear quite a lot in Scotland. So there's huge interest in doing big landscape-scale projects, and our own one, well one of ours is Cairngorms Connect. We've also been doing a lot of work up at the Flow Country for a long time. So working at that landscape scale, more and more people are kind of expressing enthusiasm for, and a desire to do that. And that I think is, is broadly to be really welcomed, because the intent sounds quite good. I think there are some question marks for us around the, sort of, building blocks within that, because I think it can sound quite good to say that you're doing big landscape-scale conservation for for climate or nature. But you absolutely have to get the fundamentals right, and make sure that it really is good for nature.

Kate Kirkwood  35:29 
I think something that's come out of COP27 this year, that's actually quite heartening to me, when you think about nature in kind of connecting with people as well, is the discussion about loss and damage as well, because actually, it enables people to really engage with what's going on around them, they're able to, when that's implemented in an equitable and fair way, it allows people to rebuild their lives, because nature is impacted by climate change. But we also have to have the people on the ground to be able to do the work as well. And in order to, really for them to buy into that work as well. They need to feel that they are protected, too. So that is heartening to know that it has been discussed. But like you say, you want to know the details of what's happening and how they're gonna do it, who's paying, and what are they actually going to do.

Stephen Magee  36:18 
I wanted to just finish off by thinking about a couple of things that I think we might be talking about this time next year. Right. And the first one of those we have, like it's come up in the course of the conversation, but it's marine, right? Like what happens with our seas is going to be huge next year. Right?

Anne McCall  36:33 
Yeah, I mean, I really think so. So Scotland has got extraordinary ambition for offshore energy, offshore turbines, some floating some not. I mean, at a scale not comparable to anywhere else in the UK at the moment, although I think Wales might be going that direction. And I think there is a real challenge for us around where do they go? What do they impact on. And we already know they will have a big impact on seabirds. And we are working as closely as we can with Scottish Government and with the industry to try and look at how we can walk that line that allows us to have lots of renewable energy, I was just talking about a coal mine, you know, obviously, we want to see more renewable energy. But we need to make sure that we don't absolutely tank our marine environment in the process.

Stephen Magee  37:26 
And very briefly, the other thing I think people will hear from us about next year is, we're already hearing about food and farming to some extent, but really making the discussion about the future of farming really strongly linked to nature.

Anne McCall  37:41 
Yeah so I mean, we're anticipating that next year will be a big year for agriculture. It constitutes about 75% of the land use in Scotland, there or there abouts. So to ignore it, would be insane if you're interested in climate and nature. It's a big contributor to climate change. And we also know it's a big contributor to biodiversity loss. So yeah, working again, trying to work. There's a lot of great farmers, the Nature Friendly Farming Network who've done amazing work in trying to point out how you can farm, and do the right thing for nature and for climate. So more of that, less of the other. And hopefully, hopefully the government will create a funding structure that supports that.

Stephen Magee  38:25 
Sounds so simple when you say it like that! Can we just do, like, more of the good stuff and less the bad stuff please, would that be alright? Listen, that is that is a whistlestop tour of the year that we've had. I would like to bring it back to where we are now. I'm crunching lovely fresh snow, right with that sparkly frost on top of it. The heat of the sun. But still this frozen still landscape in front of us. Brilliant place to end the year.

Kate Kirkwood  39:00 
Really is. Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure. And thank you to all of our podcast listeners. Yeah.

Stephen Magee  39:06 
Thanks for sticking with us through the year.

Kate Kirkwood  39:08 
We wouldn't be able to do it without you.

Stephen Magee  39:09 
There will be more to come as I say, I should think that the first one in January will be a Big Garden Birdwatch one, and then we'll see where we go from there. You'll be hearing about all the things we've just been talking about. Until then, please do, you know, like, subscribe. If you've got thoughts of any kind you can get in touch with us @RSPBScotland on Twitter, or podcast.Scotland@rspb.org.uk on the email. But until 2023 thank you for listening. Goodbye from all of us.

Everyone  39:41 
Bye bye!